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A220 / C series

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raduvisitor

Active Member
Incetul cu incetul, ceea ce se anticipa, incepe sa se discute la modul concret:

The Montreal-based manufacturer confirmed it will weigh whether to build a third C Series model larger than the existing two models in the aircraft family – one that would compete more squarely against the bread-and-butter single-aisle airliners by Boeing and Airbus. The company stressed however, that it is not working on an analysis of such a plane at the moment and that it’s premature to talk about the specifications of the jet.
....
A CS500 would most closely compete with Boeing’s current 737-800 model, which seats 189 people in one-class layout, said Canaccord Genuity analyst David Tyerman.
“The economics of stretching an airplane have been pretty attractive, such that [manufacturers] have pursued that strategy,” said Mr. Cromer. “We’ve got a pretty strong platform. Maybe it’s a possibility in the future.” He said the company needs to do more testing on the two existing models to establish the opportunities for a larger model.
“Bombardier historically has avoided the model 500 discussion because it puts it in direct competition with the heart of the Boeing and Airbus model lineup and I think they felt that might be very difficult to compete with,” said Mr. Tyerman. “There are all new people there now. So maybe we’re getting a change of view on that topic.”

Bombardier will have both current C Series models on hand in France, with one jet flying and the other on the ground to demonstrate various interior configurations. Although the company has held invite-only viewings for the first flights of both C Series models, it will be the first time it shows the plane to a wider audience.
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Sursa: Bombardier looks for C Series lift in Paris, but orders uncertain
 
R

raduvisitor

Active Member
ANALYSIS: Is air show debut a make-or-break moment for CSeries?

The aircraft may be slightly overweight, according to one customer, but overall its performance is as good as can be hoped: the CS100 can fly the promised 3,000nm (5,560km) segment while reducing specific fuel consumption 20% and cash operating cost 15%, as advertised when Bombardier launched the programme in 2008.
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Foto: cseries.com - CSeries getting ready for the City of Lights (two CSeries variants going to Paris, CS300 to join flying display)

20150527_FTV5_nuit_HR-151689_EN-675x435.jpg
 
R

raduvisitor

Active Member
Bombardier Kicks Off the 2015 International Paris Air Show with the Arrival of its All-new CSeries Family of Aircraft
CS300 aircraft will participate in the flying display, and join the static display alongside the CS100 aircraft, Q400 NextGen turboprop and CRJ1000 NextGen regional jet

Following its appearance at the show, Bombardier will demonstrate the CS100 aircraft in Zurich to launch customer, SWISS, with whom it is working very closely to ensure a successful entry into service.

After the Air Show, CS300 aircraft will visit Bombardier’s Belfast facility in Northern Ireland, where Bombardier’s employees and partners eagerly await the arrival of the first CS300 aircraft – it will be the first time the CSeries aircraft and its Belfast-produced wing will fly on site.

The International Paris Air Show runs from Monday, June 15, to Thursday, June 18, for trade visitors and Friday, June 19, to Sunday, June 21, for public visitors.
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R

raduvisitor

Active Member
Specificatii revizuite pentru CSeries, printre altele:
CS100
133 (maximum capacity)
120 (single class)
108 (dual class)
range=5,741 km

CS300
160 (maximum capacity)
140 (single class)
130 (dual class)
range=6,112 km

 
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Boobba-One

Boobba-One

Well-Known Member
...sa vedem daca performantele de zbor imbunatatite fata de cele initial anuntate vor aduce comenzi - caci in partea comerciala, Bombardier sufera rau...
 
Boobba-One

Boobba-One

Well-Known Member
Bombardier a facut public ieri ca FTV4 a reusit in luna mai testul Vmu de decolare la viteza minima (minimum unstick velocity) - unul din testele cele mai laborioase, caci aparatul trebuie sa decoleze la o viteza atit de redusa incit sa realizeze un tail-strike.
 
Boobba-One

Boobba-One

Well-Known Member
procesul de certificari a CS100 e 85% completat. la sfirsit de an se pare ca va fi 100%.
CS300 - la mijloc de '16...
 
Boobba-One

Boobba-One

Well-Known Member
Airbus au zis "non, merci"...
asta-i profil de investitie pentru fond suveran care ar vedea beneficiile unei asemenea participari si ca pe un asset politic, nu doar economic...
cealalta optiune ar fi: investitor chinez - poate chiar Comac... cu toate riscurile implicite asupra patrimoniului de proprietate intelectuala a Bombardier...
desi CSeries ar face concurenta directa produsului domestic - ar aduce customer support basis si ceva experienta intru ale ingineriei pure, certificarilor , si subassembly/parts supply-chain...
 
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R

raduvisitor

Active Member
Da, manevre, ce tin de bucataria interna a lui Bombardier (si de controlul - lupta - din interior).
Exista sprijn (inclusiv financiar) clar afirmat din partea guvernelor (din Quebec si canadian) pentru program.
 
oldblueeyes

oldblueeyes

Well-Known Member
Sa fim seriosi... Bombardier are o problema similara cu situatia care a dus la falimentul Dornier..pentru cei care nu stiu istoria...Fairchild Dornier 728 | Airliners.net.

Un produs extraordinar de bun dar din diverse motive in piata nu sunt capabili sa il vinda.

Un JV cu niste chinezi ar fi o solutie, cu o delimitare clara a pietelor - livrari Europa si Americi cu productie in Canada, livrari in ASia si Africa de la productie in China....ar face imediat un succes din produs.
 
R

raduvisitor

Active Member
Bani sunt, pe piata, pentru Bombardier; e vorba de controlul firmei (care, in continuare, e majoritar detinuta de familie).
Interesele sunt mari, pentru toti cei implicati; oricum, nu se pune problema de oprirea programului CSeries.
 
Boobba-One

Boobba-One

Well-Known Member
din pacate, oprirea programului este un risc real, tangibil si foarte apropiat. C-Series greveaza foarte tare dezvoltarea programelor de biz-jets, care sint competenta de baza a diviziei aeronautice a lui Bombardier - si care,, nici ele, nu beneficiaza de o piata foarte buna ... sa nu uitam ca programul Learjet 85 a fost pus pe gheata in mare parte pentru a da o gura de oxigen financiar lui C-Series... si nu a prea mers.
vine un moment in care avansarea cangrenei trebuie oprita.
iar pentru asta - doar amputarea poate da o speranta.

Bombardier And Airbus: This Does Not Look Good At All
 
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oldblueeyes

oldblueeyes

Well-Known Member
Situatia per ansamblu e cam nasoala.

Ideea este foarte buna, au fost primii care sa anticipeze noua generatie si sunt singurii care au venit cu un clean sheet design nu cu facelifturi. Din pacate au facut si citeva greseli in designul familiei si in marketing.

- au venit cu o familie de produse mica - C100 si C300 desi in piata se discuta ca un C500 ar fi fost util
- s-au limitat astfel in afara pietei marilor comenzi ale LCCurilor - pe de-o parte ok ca idee ca nu tb sa dai dicounturi asa de mari, pe de alta parte cind ai hale care stau aiurea, arzi bani fara sa faci nimic si fara sa cistigi ulterior din mentenanta, componente etc
- C300 a venit in clipa in care piata respectiva a crapat - practic 319 si 737-700 sunt moarte pentru mainn lines, dar sunt inca suficiente in piata ca sa mai zboare 20 de ani
- la C100 EMB are o familie intreaga in jur , cu grad mare de flexibilitate

La asta se adauga si faptul ca Q400 si CRJ sunt undeva in amurgul ciclului lor comercial, nu duduie ca sa tina investitia asta.
 
Boobba-One

Boobba-One

Well-Known Member
raduvisitor said:
tipul, e prea partinitor
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Aboulafia nu a atacat niciodata Bombardier si nici conceptul CSeries ...
El are o lejera febletze pentru Boeing in general (ceea ce nu-l impiedica sa fie din cind in cind critic - si anume pentru pierderile programului 787) - si boala pe A380 (pe care il considera, putin cam repede, un dinozaur) ... dar este un excellent analist pe care cam toata lumea il asculta.
Nu cred ca este partinitor - ci pune pe masa o problema reala: lipsa de piata pentru CSeries. Este un segment nou - si tinind cont de numarul comenzilor, s-ar putea ca Airbus, Boeing & Embraer sa fi avut dreptate ignorind-o.
SSJ nu se poarta rau - dar asta e o alta poveste...
 
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