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oldblueeyes

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MAX10 e mai mic decit A321LR ... asa ca pina si statementul ca lipseste ceva e aiurea, pentru ca piata e A320->Max9->Max10->A321.

Pe de alta parte, cu un redisgn de aripa, trend e aterizare etc, Airbus poate scoate un A322LR.

Problema e de flota. Daca A321LR se impune pe rute "medium long and thin", atunci deciziile de flota in jos sau in sus vor fi fie A320/321 pentru rute scurte fie 330NEO si 350 pentru rute lungi.

Cu Max10 de fapt tii primii clienti de 787 acum sa ce apropie primul val de terminari de leasinguri aproape de tine ca sa cistigi timp.Pentru Boeing efortul va fi marginal, penru client compromisul va fi minimal.

DAr s-ar putea sa apara clienti gen KLM pentru destinatii gen Providence Turkish pentru marireea retelei in Africa de Est iar LOT sigur vor musca pentru zona de leisure gen Kenia, curse de Emirate samd.
 

raduvisitor

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ANALYSIS: Airline support gathers around Boeing MoM concept

Executives from both Delta Air Lines and United Airlines spoke positively of the programme, dubbed the “MoM” by some, as they look at their future aircraft needs in the roughly 200- to 260-seat segment at the ISTAT Americas conference in San Diego.

“It has a lot of merit and, if they decide to launch it, we’d be very interested in considering it,” said Andrew Levy, chief financial officer of Chicago-based United, at the conference.
Daniel Pietrzak, managing director of fleet management at Delta, agrees with Levy’s comments and elaborates a bit on what the carrier needs. “Look at it as a 757-300 capacity mission to something like a 767-200 – obviously new technology but with the size and range,” he says. ....

The specifications of the potential Boeing MoM – or in the words of Air Lease executive chairman Steven Udvar-Hazy: “just call it a 797” – are beginning to take shape, airlines and lessors say at ISTAT.
The twin-aisle aircraft, something Levy confirms for the first time, will have two variants with around 225 to 260 seats and a range of 4,800nm to 5,200nm.
.... a 40,000lb-thrust (180kt) aircraft would be good for some carriers but not all, while a 45,000lb-thrust aircraft could meet more of the market demand but would be more expensive.
Boeing has previously said that it is looking at a power range of around 40,000lb-thrust for the MoM. ....

In July 2016, Boeing forecast a total market of 4,000 to 5,000 aircraft for a MoM-sized airplane but noted that the Airbus A321neo and A330neo would take a portion of this, leaving a demand for roughly 2,000 to 3,000 units.

Asked about Airbus' long-range variant of the A321neo, Levy says it "does a nice job but it doesn’t quite meet all the needs we have out of Newark".
 

oldblueeyes

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Adica o struto-camila, ca sa fim sinceri.

767-200 a fost ca design de range optimizat pentru transatlantice si transcontinental USA. Asadar nevoia e in piata de a avea un range mai mare decit 321LR pentru a fi mai flexibil pe transatlantic.

757-300 ca si capacitate e undeva putin peste 250 de scaune, depinde de configuratie.

Intrebarea e o chestiune tehnica - un LR cu 250 de scaune e deja 787-800. Twin aisle cu configuratie 2-3-2 greu va fi mai eficient datorita pierderilor pe diametru cu al doilea culoar. Un single aisle poate fi contracarat de Airbus cu un 322 - necesita ceva investitii dar iese mai ieftin decit un clean sheet design.
 

raduvisitor

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Da, destule aspecte cu multiple variabile. Aparent, se vorbeste de MoM, dar totul se limiteaza la segmentul > 200 seats (sigur, pana la urma, cam in aceasta zona Boeing e cam descoperit).
Oricum, e destul de clar ca 737 MAX va ramane in productie mai mult decat s-ar fi anticipat initial (probabil, minim 15 ani). Sigur, depinde si de concurenta, dar si Airbus si-ar dori o perioada de consolidare pe ceea ce au acum pe piata, respectiv in lucru, pentru viitorul imediat (in timp ce chinezii si rusii nu par deloc, deocamdata, sa puna probleme).
 

raduvisitor

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Pentru ca se fac destule confuzii, mai ales in media, trebuie lamurit un lucru:

Southwest ramane cu titulatura de "launch customer" pentru 737 MAX, indiferent de cine va opera primul zbor comercial. Titulatura respectiva este pentru primul client cu comanda ferma.
 

tavi

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Câteva probleme pentru Boeing


Boeing grounds 737 MAX test planes over quality issue with engine

Just weeks away from the first delivery of its new 737 MAX airliner, Boeing on Wednesday grounded its fleet of test planes because of a quality problem with the new LEAP engine.

About 15 or so MAX airplanes are already built and parked at Renton Municipal Airport. Boeing said it has begun inspecting all the engines on those airplanes.

Engine maker CFM International has informed Boeing of “a potential manufacturing quality escape with low pressure turbine discs (LPT)” in the engines already delivered, Boeing said.

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raduvisitor

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Prima livrare deja efectuata: Boeing delivers first 737 Max

Boeing has delivered the first 737 Max 8 to launch operator Malindo, handing over the fourth generation of the 50-year-old single-aisle design to a customer.
Malindo, a Malaysia-based subsidiary of the Lion Air Group, still expects to launch the 737-8 on revenue flights by the end of June.
....
Boeing plans to deliver more than 500 737s this year, of which 10-15% will be the re-engined model. The 737 Max launch customer, Southwest Airlines, plans to take delivery of its first 737-8 in the fall.
 
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transporter

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Boeing a lansat astazi si oficial noul 737 MAX 10.

News Releases/Statements

De vazut daca vor reusi sa ia din cota de piata a lui A321. Am citit unele pareri ca de fapt cei care vor pierde sunt tot ei prin faptul ca multe comenzi de MAX 9 vor fi convertite in MAX 10. Plus ca MAX 10 are un range inferior lui A321.
 

oldblueeyes

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Pai vedeti si voi rezultatul primei zile in Le Bourget.

Oficial 240 de comenzi, optiuni si intentii de cumparare.

Cel mai mare client linie aeriana e Spice Jet care ia 20 si schimba 20 de bucati din comanda de MAx8 - deja am scos 40 de bucati din suma totala. Tui face o conversie la 18 737 mai mici si uite-asa deja 25% din marile comenzi sunt luate. Gecas fac si ei converie de la MAxurile mai mici... inca 20 de "steaguri" coane Fanica.

In rest, de pe la companiile de leasing sunt in general memorandumuri of understanding pe intreaga familie unde apar shifturi de structura flotelor.
 

raduvisitor

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Cu siguranta, cu MAX 10, Boeing nu si-a propus sa concureze A321LR, ci doar A321neo.
In principiu, specificatiile arata bine (autonomia fiind arhisuficienta, pentru obiectivul propus); ramane de urmarit care vor fi rezultatele in practica (in speta, cele comerciale).
Oricum, probabil ca acum exista un oarecare regret ca s-a ezitat atat de mult timp cu acest model.
 

Boobba-One

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Al 10'000-lea B737 este un MAX8 ... S/N 42571 ... cind se va usca vopesaua, va fi livrat lui Southwest Airlines.
Doar DC-3 a fost produs in mai multe exemplare:16'000.
Ceea ce graieste o gramada despre economii de scara si amortizarea multor costuri care permit familiei 737 sa evolueze in timp ... si lui Boeing sa il vinda cu profit chiar si lejer sub 50mioUSD.
Longevitatea asta ne invata ca Boeing gestioneaza familia 737 in mod proactiv pe termen foaaarte lung. De pilda, trecerea de la epoca de piatra a modelelor 1-200 (nedigitala) la all-digital s-a facut prin redefinirea seriilor 3-500 cam in acelasi timp cu aparitia lui A320.
Incapatinarea de-a face sa evolueze o familie de modele se reflecteaza si in ameliorarea sigurantei zborului. Modelele 1-200 au inregistrat o pierdere totala (total hull loss) de 1.75 la cite un million de decolari. Modelele 3-500 sint deja la 0.66. Iar 6-900 sint la 0.19. Cifrele vin de la fabricant: Boeing Crash Stats To 2016.
Mai sint si alte argumente, gen simplicitatea si maturitatea design-ului derivat din B707; flexibilitate in configurarea cabinei si cargo-hold; posibilitatea de-a opera long-range; accesul foarte usor la un numar mare de MRO-uri; etc.
Dar principalele cred ca sint primele doua enumerate...
 
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oldblueeyes

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737 si 320 sunt cash cowuri care nu mai traiesc de mult din performanta tehnica absoluta ci din economia de scara a productiei si din costul de oportunitate al schimbarii flotelor mari.

Ca design avantajul principal nu a fost tablaria ci modificarea normelor ETOPS in timp care le aduce azi la optiuni de transatlantice scurte.

Iar factorul esential a fost tzeapa cu latime de 6 scaune - compromisul ideal economic.
 

raduvisitor

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The Transportation Department's Inspector General has opened an investigation into the Federal Aviation Administration's approval of Boeing's 737 Max planes, the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday. The investigation will be focused on an automatic safety system implicated in the October crash involving Lion Air in Indonesia, the Journal reported, citing a government official. It is unknown if the Ethiopian Airlines flight that crashed a week ago will play any role in this investigation or not.

The Journal reported, citing a source familiar with the matter, that a subpoena has been issued by a grand jury in Washington seeking "documents, including correspondence, emails and other messages" from at least one person involved in the development of the 737 Max planes.

CNN has reached out to the Transportation Department and the agency's inspector general's office for comment. The FAA referred questions on the reported inspector general probe to the Transportation Department. The agency said in a statement, however, that its "aircraft certification processes are well established and have consistently produced safe aircraft designs."

A preliminary report of the Lion Air crash showed that the pilots fought with the automatic safety system, known as the maneuvering characteristics augmentation system (MCAS), for control of the jet. The Ethiopian Minister of Transport said Sunday that preliminary data recovered from the black boxes showed "similarities" between the two incidents.

Boeing announced Monday that it's working with the FAA to finalize a software update related to the MCAS system to make the planes safer. The company plans to have the update mandated no later than April.
 
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AIR06

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Imi inchipui ca discountul a fost urias! Mi se pare artificiala rau aceasta comanda.

Ma intreb ce se va intampla daca noul soft al MCAS nu va putea livra rezultate acceptabile. .
In fond este o problema mecanica care se vrea rezolvata printr-un soft.
Daca niciodata MAX nu va putea fi sigur?
 
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tavi

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E o problemă de redundanță. Mai greu cu softul în cazul ăsta. Din câte am înțeles MCAS se bazează pe un singur senzor. Nu înțeleg cum poate fi rezolvată treaba asta doar cu un update de firmware ;)
 

AIR06

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Mai rau ,este vorba de pozitionarea unor motoare mai mari,mai puternice pe o aeronava conceputa acum 50 de ani, modernizata si remodernizata.
Sa zicem ca totusi FAA va da intr-un final ok-ul. Orice glitch ,orice incident /sperietura va ingropa MAX-ul . Nu m-ar mira ca B sa se intoarca la 738.
 
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TotalGruv

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Mcas nu a fost raspunsul la motoare, ci mai de graba la modificarile aduse ca sa "incapa" motoarele

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